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Catherine "Kitty" Genovese
Click on image to view the original photograph, courtesy of the Genovese Family. This photograph did not appear in the original Times story.
Editor's Note: To encourage viewers to share opposing opinions, my policy is not to reply to message board posts either publicly or privately unless the poster asks me to do so. So, fire away. Click here to post a message [Your email address will not be published unless you request it.] Biographical sketch of Kitty Genovese A critical review of the March 13, 1964 New York Times article An issue by issue analysis of the case Bibliography and list of sources The Kitty Genovese Message Board The killer's parole status Deny parole to '64 Kitty Genovese horror killer, says victim's brother |
Article No. 1 | Article No. 2 | Message Board
Kitty Genovese
Message Board
Message Board
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Messages
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May 21, 2006
Fascinating view of a famous incident. I was only 3 months old when Ms. Genovese was murdered, but the event was discussed years later by my parents (we were living in Rochester, NY at the time.) My father repeatedly pointed out that this event was "the beginning of the end of our innocence."
I have heard and was part of discussions of this case as an undergrad, as well as in grad school (social work Masters.) Were we chasing chimeras all those years? In the back of my mind I had a nagging feeling there was more to the story than the NYT reports. Your work offered me the "more" I was seeking, so thank you for that.
It is somewhat ironic that the some of the neighborhood "associations", as well as the Neighboorhood Watch programs we are all so familiar with now, have morphed into something that is, at times, just as appalling as the events of 3/13/64 (in a more subtle way.) Begun with the best of intentions and altruism, some of their modern "kin" that I have witnessed as a resident of New Orleans were more about suspicion and profiling than being a good neighbor.
Nevertheless, what happened to Kitty Genovese should never have happened to her, or anyone else. Should someone have called right away? Probably. Would it have made a difference? Maybe.
While we cannot turn back time, reading your work and other pieces has gotten me thinking about an old concept that deserves another look: social responsibilty towards our fellow human beings, and doing the best one can, based on their perceptions and fears in any given moment of crisis.
Thanks for letting me up on my soapbox for a bit.
Matthew Knapp
[To contact Matthew Knapp, click here]
May 19, 2006
I lived on Austin Street near Union Turnpike in the early 1990's. On numerous nights on the anniversary of Kitty Genovese's death, someone in the neighborhood gave out blood-curdling screams at about the time she was murdered. I called the police two years in a row, before I realized what was going on. One night coming from work, at 1:15 am, I heard similar screams from a woman on Austin Street, within sight of the murder scene. A young woman was on the ground and a man with a knife was holding it at her neck. I ran towards them yelling and the man dropped the knife and jumped into a van and drove off towards Leffert's Blvd.. I gave the knife to the police when they came to my apartment. I was happy to leave Kew Gardens.
Tom Fergus
[To contact Tom Fergus, click here]
Abe Rosenthal and the Kitty Genovese Case
May 12, 2006
Editor's Note: The death Wednesday of former New York Times Executive Editor Abe Rosenthal generated some interesting comments about the Kitty Genovese case in the current edition of the New York Observer newspaper.
The following is excerpted from: Charles Kaiser, "A.M. Rosenthal, 1922-2006", The New York Observer, (May 12, 2006):
Kitty Genovese Protest
May 11, 2006
To the Editor: Joe, you must have a very morbid mind to have published a picture of Kitty's grave site to this site. This incident is in the past and bringing it up as you have does not change the situation. We all know about the murder and some of us have lived thru it and do not want to have someone keep bringing it up. Please let her lie in peace and leave it alone.
Linda Wiesner
[To contact Linda Wiesner, click here]
A Photo of Kitty Genovese's Grave
May 8, 2006
Click on thumbnail to enlarge.
When I first became aware of the Genovese murder about 2 months ago I
started reading everything I could find on the internet related to the
murder. Your site seems to be the only one that sets the record
straight. Most of the others are still using the exaggerated reporting
from 1964, i.e. 38 eye witnesses, 3 separate attacks, etc.
It really is a fascinating case. It struck a chord with me. Probably the JFK assassination or the OJ Simpson murders are the only ones that seem to come close in my mind. (I'm only 36.) What's more remarkable to me is that it happened so close to where I live.
I do think it was unfair to blame the people living nearby. I can sympathize with them. I live on the 3rd floor of an apartment building on Austin Street in Forest Hills. There are two bars on the ground floor of my building and one across the street. I hear late night noise almost all the time. It would be very difficult for me to distinguish between cries for help and plain old rowdiness, especially if I was awoken at 3:20 a.m.
It does seem like the people of the neighborhood would rather forget the incident. I suppose it's hard to blame them. On March 13, the anniversary of Kitty's death, I went to the murder site and didn't even see any flowers to mark the anniversary.
The first time I was in that neighborhood was about a year ago when I went to see a movie with my girlfriend at the movie theater on Lefferts Blvd. Having never been to that neighborhood before I remember saying to her, "what a nice, charming neighborhood." It's hard to believe that could be the scene of such an infamous murder.
After reading every story I could find about Kitty Genovese on the internet, I noticed that I never came across a picture of her gravestone. I thought this was strange since it's usually not that hard to find pictures of gravestones of famous people on the internet. Since you provided the name of the cemetery on your site, I decided to make a trip. I have an uncle who I visit every other month who doesn't live far from New Canaan, so I decided to stop by the cemetery on my next visit to see him.
Not knowing where her grave was located, I called the cemetery several times but I always got their answering machine. They must have very limited office hours. Lakeview Cemetery is a fairly large cemetery. I'd estimate there must be about 10,000 graves there. I thought finding her grave would be like finding a needle in a haystack. But I gave myself 30 minutes to see if I could get lucky and find it. That's about all the time I had because it was getting close to dusk. After walking around for about 20 minutes I came across a large headstone rising from the ground which said "Genovese." However, it wasn't Kitty's. But the names on the gravestone, Vincent and Rachel, looked familiar. From what I remembered, it could be her parents' names. So I started looking around and sure enough, Kitty's small gravestone was just a few feet away. There was nothing unique or remarkable about her grave at all. There was also no sign anyone had visited her grave recently. I was there on April 8, 2006.
What struck me as unusual about this cemetery was that 99% of the gravestones were just a name and a date. None of the gravestones I saw had any inscription whatsoever. There was nothing like "forever in our hearts" or "loving father" written on any of them. I was curious to see if there was an inscription written on Kitty's gravestone.
Regards,
Jonathan Bloomfield
[To contact Jonathan Bloomfield, click here]
April 7, 2006
I am very interested in this case. It has come to my attention that Kitty was a lesbian. As a social work student, I am interested in the implications of this finding. I have only skimmed your article, but am printing it to take home from school now to read after class. I am just wondering if you have any further information regarding this fact?
Thank you,
Kimberly Gann
Senior Class Representative, IUSSW
[To contact Kimberly Gann, click here]
Editor's Note: I have sent Kimberly an email with whatever information I have.
March 2, 2006
I think I knew by the age of six that if there was an emergency that I should dial "0" to get an operator and to ask the operator for the police. You certainly do make a lot of excuces for those tenants in the Mowbray bldg. At first, I thought you were right, so I walked the 1/2 mile or so from where I live to the site of Ms. Genovese's murder--I only just discovered that I live that close. After seeing the scene of the crime I don't buy your argument. I live on the top (6th) floor of my building which is on a corner of Austin St., and it is very easy to see to the sidewalk across the street at 3:30 AM when the trees are bare. Also. it takes no more than a few moments to come to attention when awakened by shouts for help. After considering the two people involved Ms. Genovese and Mr. Moseley, and that this occured in 1964, you would have had to have been from another planet not to suspect something very wrong was going on out there. All one had to do was to ask the police to please send a car to Austin St. that Friday March 13, 1964. I personally have called the police for things of a less serious nature than what Ms. Genovese was experiencing that night (when in doubt); I can't imagine that her trip from Austin St. to the vestibule in the back of her building was a pleasant one. Maybe it wasn't 38 people or even 28 people but it was a number of people, and those people decided not to do anything. Clearly, they should have done something, and I don't want to make excuces for their actions.
Sincerely,
Kevin Raftery
[To contact Kevin Raftery, click here]
More on Denial of Parole for Winston Moseley
February 5, 2006
Editor's Note: The New York Daily News newspaper has more the Parole Board's decision to refuse parole to Winston Moseley, the man who killed Kitty Genovese. Moseley is not eligible for parole again until January of 2008.
Click here to read the full story
Moseley Denied Parole
February 3, 2006
Editor's Note: Winston Moseley, the man who killed Kitty Genovese, has been denied parole for the twelfth time since 1984.
Click here to read the full story
December 13, 2005
My thanks for a truly exceptional piece of research.
I read a great deal of your long account, motivated in part by a social psychology study I read in the '70's that was inspired by the Kitty Genovese report, a study that seemed to confirm the notion that the more people who are aware of a problem, the fewer who will feel responsible for acting on it.
Given the high-profile nature of this incident and the shortcomings of the initial New York Times account, have you considered approaching someone in the film industry about doing a piece to provide the public with a better understanding of this tragic event?
Paul du Pre
[To contact Paul du Pre, click here]
The Killer of Kitty Genovese is up for Parole
December 3, 2005
Editor's Note: Winston Moseley, the man who murdered Kitty Genovese, is again up for parole in January of 2006. You can track him by clicking on the following link to the New York State Corrections web site and typing "Winston" and "Moseley" (without the quotation marks) in the appropriate text search boxes.
New York State Dept. of Correctional Services
November 22, 2005
You read the 1964 article and concluded that it didn't hold up. My reaction was more a thought about the improbability of it. Not much of a difference except to reinforce my wonder at the improbability of a killer returning to finish the job after having been frightened off. The psych studies have reviewed the witnesses thoroughly, but has anyone studied the unlikelihood of Moseley's degree of detachment that would allow him to resume the "hunt" against self-interest. Why would he do that? I have no doubt that he did, but maybe an insanity plea WAS appropriate. Moral bankruptcy doesn't explain the willingness to expose himself when he KNOWS he's been seen. Doesn't he still want to evade detection? If I were one of the 38, this would have been my assumption. I would have figured the ruckus was over, that everybody had gone. The end.
Seven years earlier, Edgar Smith took great pains to cover his tracks and destroy evidence after murdering Victoria Zielinski (crimemagazine.com), though his callous indifference to the pain and suffering of another mirrored that of Winston Moseley. Both seemed to lack a human capacity to feel (and both were clearly the most despicable of cowards). But Smith certainly meant to remain undetected. It was a focal consideration in his actions-after-the-fact. Smith tried to be careful. Moseley behaved dangerously by returning to commit some more stabbing. He heard Karl Ross and his door, and STILL continued his attack. Arrogance? Nothing more? I think not. I think this shows a dissociation from the tangible world. He really isn't of the sane functional world.
OK, so what if I'm right. Who cares? What difference would it make? Well, I think it points out the more important-and ignored-arena of study. What makes these psychopaths/sociopaths tick? Learning this could really have benefits for society, and Kitty & Vickie would not have died in vain (of course Kitty's death has produced benefits already).
Wally
Wally Jeffs
wally6878@yahoo.com
September 1, 2005
Much has been made of the witnesses' supposedly irrational fears of 'getting involved'.
But consider this passage from Damon Runyon's story "Blood Pressure". The narrator has (unwillingly) spent the night with 'Rusty Charlie', who has been known to shoot a guy dead because he doesn't like his hat. Charlie has just been whacked on the head by his wife, who is angry about him staying out all night...
Rich Rostrom
"This really is the future I wanted. Although I expected longer battery life." ~ James Lileks
[To contact Rich Rostrom, click here]
August 26, 2005
Thank you very much for this article. Your thoughtful analysis and presentation of the facts have helped change what I thought I knew of this tragic case. Ms. Genovese's death remains the greatest tragedy here, but it also now appears to me that some people who should have known better contributed to misunderstandings about those "38 witnesses." That is something of a tragedy itself. We are all, as you suggested, fallible. And it remains a valid question to ask ourselves, if we witness something similar to what these people did that night, would we react better? Another question might be though, did some people use this tragic situation to make a point or points that are not supported by the evidence? If so, they have contributed, wittingly or not, to perpetuating our ignorance of the human condition, and they used Ms. Genovese's story to help them do so. Needless to say, she deserved better than what happened to her that night, but she also did not deserve to have her life used in this way. Thank you again for helping set the record straight. I will tell others about this site, and hope that your efforts will help increase our knowledge and undertanding of this world in an important way.
Matthew Vaporean
[To contact Matthew Vaporean, click here]
July 5, 2005
Your piece on the Kitty Genovese case is excellent in every aspect save one -- why? Why did Rosenthal push the story in the first place, and why tolerate the exceptionally shoddy journalism? My memory from Rosenthal's book was that he originally went to the police asking about the double confession in the Barbara Kralic case, that Murphy defelected the question with the tale of the 38 witnesses, a tale that Rosenthal immediately picked up and ran with. My feeling is that Murphy had a lot at stake in selling this story, because Alvin Mitchell's confession in the Kralic case had probably been coerced (not unusual in those days) and because of the generally low esteem in which New Yorkers held the police (described in almost apocalyptic terms by Murphy in August of that year). Rosenthal played along because he knew a good story and this one also attracted his sermonizing side. He may have had other motives as well. But he must have known, just like he must have known something was sketchy about Murphy's denial of knowledge of the double confession -- "he looked at me from the corner of his eye, and said he knew nothing about the double confession. Somehow, I feel still that he was being less than utterly frank with me."
I would appreciate any thoughts you have along these lines. Also, do you know if the whole double confession business ever came up at the Fordham thing?
Thanks for your work.
mark rabine
[To contact Mark Rabine, click here]
June 21, 2005
Thank you to everyone involved in producing this information on the Catherine Genovese murder. I teach a graduate course in law and ethics for an Arkansas university. I often use the "Kitty" Genovese murder as an opening example of ethical questions versus legal questions.
I should have known better than to rely on the New York Times to provide an accurrate description of the Genovese murder and surrounding circumstances. Your Website provides the other side of the story, making the tragedy more uderstandable (if less sensational). I will post a link to your material on my course Web site.
Very best wishes to you and your colleagues!
Jeff Pittman
Jeffrey Pittman
[To contact Jeffrey Pittman, click here]
I am a student at McHenry County College and I am doing an oral report on the story of Kitty Genovese. This report is for my Ethics class. I was asked to do a little research on the story before doing the oral presentation. I have to talk about how this story relates to ethics. First, I have to type an article summary, then take key points and views and do the oral presentation. This assignment is due on Wed. April 6th, 2005. I would like as much info. on this story as you can possibly help me with. The book I'm reading this story from is called Vice & Virtue in everyday life by: Christina & Fred Sommers. The Author of the story is: Martin Gansberg. When I first read the story I really had a hard time believing that 38 people just watched her while she faught for her life. Please send any responses along with photos to alb67blue@aol.com
Thank You for your cooperation,
Alice Brosman
alb67blue@aol.com
Thoughts on OKG's Articles About Kitty Genovese
March 14, 2005
I read this with great interest. As a research psychologist, I'm familiar with media accounts of the case and social psychological explanations for the phenomenon. I both agree and disagree with your interpretation.
I was unaware of how distorted media accounts were: I pictured a crime in which a woman was stabbed in an apartment courtyard while people watched for thirty straight minutes doing nothing while she was stabbed again and again. I have always agreed that apathy was the wrong way to characterize the situation, but that diffusion of responsibility and pluralistic ignorance was what was at issue.
We have *all* experienced things and looked around to gauge peoples' reactions before deciding how to respond. One time I was in an earthquake and found myself looking around to see if anyone else was alarmed before deciding whether or not I was imagining things, which was clearly not rational, since I felt like I was and I was in fact, experiencing an earthquake.
Also, anyone who has ever witnessed a crime and decided to call the police has had the thought, "Someone has probably called already". In fact, I think this happens a lot less because of this particular case, which is a good thing.
However, by your analysis, at least three people didn't call because they didn't want to be involved, one decided not to call because he thought someone else already had, and several other claimed not to know why they didn't act, which to me implies, "I knew something was terribly terribly wrong, yet I didn't call -- WHY didn't I call?" -- not confusion over what the proper course of action was, but confusion about why they did not act in a way that could have helped.
I also disagree with the idea that most of the people who either heard or saw the attack did not know something terrible was happening. A woman is beaten (if you accept the idea that few knew she was actually being stabbed), then gets up and wanders away -- either in a "dream-like state" (I find hard to believe, by the way, knowing what I know about shock) or gripping the wall (which I find more plausible). This alone is a situation that calls for the police to check on the state of the woman -- whether drunk or dazed or hurt -- wandering around alone at 3:00 AM after an attack by a man. Certainly when the man came *back* that should have spelled danger to everyone who witnessed his return -- whether or not she was in the area, they should have known to call the police, because he clearly was trying to find her in order to hurt her. There is simply no other explanation for his return.
I think that a few things contributed to their not calling the police, and that it had very little to do with apathy. People have always been taught not to cry "wolf" and often adjust their threshold for calling the police to a level that is too high. I think a couple of them were just panicked and froze, I think a couple really just did not want to get involved and hoped that the situation wasn't grave as it appeared. I do not, however, believe that the situation did not appear to be serious.
I was in a situation that was a bit similar, and I knew something was very wrong. I heard a woman's scream late at night. I lived in a neigborhood that was filled with college students who tended to be rowdy after a night of drinking, and at first, I thought "hum. Was that a distress scream? It sounded an awful lot like a distress scream. Hm. I wonder. Gosh, I'd feel so stupid if it was just a couple girls who were drunk. I think I'll call. I feel sort of stupid, but who cares? Better to be safe than sorry." Before I could even really complete the thought and get into my apartment to call, a man dressed in all black ran by me. The combination of the scream and the man dressed in black was enough to definitely cross the threshold into "something is NOT right". I called the police and to make a long story short, the woman I had heard screaming had been maced and had fought off her attacker as he tried to sexually assault her.
Anyway, the point is, that with less information than some of those witnesses, I knew something was very wrong. I don't think that it would have taken a monster not to call the police, but I do think that some of those folks did not call, not because of confusion, but because they had not been educated to overcome their natural reluctance to get the police involved when it is warranted. I think that such a situation is at least a little less likely now that people know about the Kitty Genovese case, even though there are significant social psychological factors. But just because I do not think that the onlookers were the apathetic monsters that the NY Times made them out to be doesn't mean that I think their reactions were not terribly, terribly flawed. A woman, assaulted by a man, alone late at night -- that warrants a call to the police even if it is "just" an assault.
Thanks for the interesting analysis.
Anna
[To contact Anna, click here]
[Editor's Note: Yesterday was the 41st anniversary of Kitty's death.]
Another Reaction to the Kitty Genovese Story
February 20, 2005
I do feel that you've made some excellent points. I do agree that the New York times made some stretches in their initial article. But wasn't the effect on the city worth the so called toture the residents were put through? As a result, block and neighborhood associations were formed. While you've shown that this case may not have been entirely apathic, apathy was a major problem during that time period elsewhere in the country. People were forced to examine themselves and ask themselves that awful question, "what would i do?" Psychologists finally began to examine prosocail behavior. And today, they are no longer truly blamed. We understand their reasoning now. But what about those who did understand what was happening, like the Koshkins? Why didn't they call the police? You've made excellent arguments why apathy was not present in every witness but it most certainly was present in some witnesses. Though the hours were early, how could these people not hear! the tone in her scream? they may not have understood her words but the tone was most certainly audible from the street. There is a very significant difference between fear and anger and that tone would have been audible from seven storys up. Otherwise, Robert Mozer would not have yelled down. If he understood the tone, why didn't others? ... Your insight to the crime has helped me look at it from all angles.
Molly
Email address withheld
[To contact Molly, click here]
February 14, 2005
I just finished your article, which i googled because I face a similar bystander effect occuring in a social organisation i have loved for years. I found your words both comforting and controversial. I thank you for it, yet disagree with your conclusions. Athough i was a news photographer for over 30 years and am intimately aware of the exaggerating press, Some of the 38 here ( the same # of my group) are definitely blameless, but enough failed to commit any action as to confirm the existence of evil complacency. I believe that moral absolutes exist, my position formed thru over 30 years as a block captain and 25 years as a Town Watch leader here in Philly. Neither position pays anything, and the hours aren't great either, but i know that "all that evil needs to flourish is that good men do nothing" (Did I quote that right?) - you get my drift anyway.
Neither of us can change history, but we can each spin it our own way, I guess. Probably the true path is in the middle somewhere, so that's where I'll try next - maybe I'll see yizz there, and thanks again for your help
neil benson
[To contact Neil Benson, click here]
Japanese TV Interview
September 28, 2004
Editor's Note: Does anyone out there have any friends in Japan? Yesterday, I was interviewed about the Kitty Genovese case by Japanese Television. The interview took place at the scene of the crime here in Kew Gardens and is supposed to be shown some time in the near future in Japan on a TV show called "Unbelievable" which is broadcast on the Fuji Network every Thursday night from 8 - 9 PM. I asked if the Network would send me a copy of the show, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen. So I'm wondering if there is anyone in Japan who might be able to tape the show when it is broadcast and send it to me. I would reimburse him or her for all expenses.
July 27, 2004
I am 17 years old. I lived in Kew Gardens for 15 years of my life and I was told about Kitty Genovese and what had happened to her. From what I was told when I was younger about her murder, is different from what I had read in the "true story". I thought she was murdered not by the Tudor Housing but on the 10 story building property. I now understand what actually happened and that not everyone was able to see what went on. Also, one question: Was the L.I.R.R. only for passenger use in 1964?, Also, If trains passed by, wouldn't it be hard to hear some of the screams? The trains that passed by are pretty loud.
Name Withheld
[Editor's Note: In 1964, the Long Island Railroad was primarily a passenger train. I believe it did move some cargo. Nothing I've read on the case to date leads me to believe the Long Island Railroad had any effect on what happened that night. The attacks occurred between 3:20 and 4AM when there would have been few if any trains passing by. Assuming one did, I do not think it would have been loud enough to drown out Kitty's screams, nor would the train have made more than a few seconds of racket. Although Kitty's outcries probably lasted less than a minute, they were most certainly longer than the few seconds it would have taken a train to pass through.]
Listen to the Fordham Radio Program on Kitty Genovese
April 10, 2004
Editor's Note: Mike Hoffman has posted audio excerpts from the Fordham Radio show about Kitty Genovese which was broadcast on Saturday morning, April 3rd. To listen to them, CLICK HERE
Quoted in the Queens Tribune
March 11, 2004
Editor's Note: The Queens Tribune, a local newspaper, refers to the research and analysis on this web site in a 40th anniversary article about Kitty Genovese. Here's the quote:
To read the entire article, CLICK HERE.
Quoted in the Queens Chronicle
March 11, 2004
Editor's Note: The current issue of a local newspaper called The Queens Chronicle has a story about Kitty Genovese which also mentions Old Kew Gardens [.com]. Here's the quote:
To read the entire story, CLICK HERE.
New York Times Article on Kitty Genovese
February 22, 2004
The following are excerpts from the NY Times article, regarding our wonderful friend and founder of this "Old Kew Gardens, NY" site. He was interviewed regarding his tireless efforts in reference to the Kitty Genovese murder.
Bonni
ForestHillsHS@aol.com
February 11, 2004
I want to thank Joe De May for all the research he did on the Kitty Genovese case. I was born in Kew Gardens General Hospital in 1946 and lived in Kew Gardens, on Talbot St., until I went off to graduate school in 1967. When I told my U. of Michigan roommate I was from Kew Gardens, the Kitty Genovese story was her association with the name. Worse than the embarrassment was the horror of the story itself. I'm very glad to read that the facts do not really support the reports we originally read. I also think that in 1964, crimes of that nature were such a rarity, especially in Kew Gardens, that few of the "witnesses" would have imagined what a horrifying attack was taking place outside their windows.
Elizabeth Bacharach
[To contact Elizabeth Bacharach, click here.]
October 2, 2003
~kitty~
100 screams on a march 13th night
38 neighbors cowering in fright
1964 a year of love and peace
life shouldn't end after a 28 year lease
if only one hand had reached for the phone
kitty an angel would today be coming home
no one can understand why you never called
how can you sleep while your sister is mauled
mowbray house, west virginia, blood on austin street
so many stab wounds from your head to your feet
38 witnesses didn't care about your life
nor did a madman wielding a knife
words can't describe your horrible pain
it matters not that your killer was insane
never forgotten we love you and wish you were here
our sorrow, grief and guilt far too much to bear
you're gone we live with that but not in vain
you're with god now our loss is his/her gain
we pray you're at peace, that's reserved for the best
and for those 38 their quest is for some rest
leonard schneir 6/20/2000
nyclids@aol.com
July 23, 2003
To Mr. Thoma, I'm sorry you feel the way you do about the people that you say did nothing while Kitty was killed. You obviously have fallen into the trap of believing everything you heard from the police reports and the press releases of the time. What they say happened did not indeed happen the way it was portrayed. If you read further into the documentation of the case on this website, you will learn quite a bit of what really transpired on that night that was not previously known or realized. How do I know? I was there! I was one of the witnesses, one that knows the police were indeed called, and the how and why of the reason things that followed went the way they did. Please do review the entire documentation within to see how and why things went the way they did.
MRH - NYPD Retired
fourtniner@softhome.net
July 20, 2003
Are you a "Friend" of the lunatic who killed Kitty Genovese?? To even begin to defend this nut and those of the dozens of people who did nothing to help this poor girl out is beyond words. Everyone knows they all watched and nobody called for help. It is a tragic picture of the American public and exactly what is still wrong with society today....nobody ever wants to take a stand and get involved. Regardless of the small details you seem intent on pointing out, she was attacked and killed while screaming for help and somebody should have done something. I hope Kitty's soul haunts those 38 people forever.
D. Thoma
DMThoma72@aol.com
May 29, 2003
You have done a great service in analyzing the NYTimes article about the Kitty Genovese murder. Not only does it dispell the myth that dozens of people who witnessed a murder did nothing to stop it (and all that that implies, as your reference to the discussion of the case in psychology textbooks points out), but it points out the importance of critical thinking and is itself a good example of it. Thanks. I will bookmark this and pass it on.
Ken Michaud
Link posted on Freerepublic.com
May 22, 2003
i am a 15 year old student from Australia...My drama class, year 10, is doing a play on the murder of Kitty Genovese... I am now doing an assignment on winston moseley and am looking for further information...
Danielle
roxy_princess_chik@hotmail.com
October 27, 2002
The Kitty Genovese information was very enlightening, and deserves to be made more generally known.
Mike
czero@worldnet.att.net
[Ed.'s Note: There are two sections on Kitty Genovese. Click here and here to view them.]
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May 21, 2006
Fascinating view of a famous incident. I was only 3 months old when Ms. Genovese was murdered, but the event was discussed years later by my parents (we were living in Rochester, NY at the time.) My father repeatedly pointed out that this event was "the beginning of the end of our innocence."
I have heard and was part of discussions of this case as an undergrad, as well as in grad school (social work Masters.) Were we chasing chimeras all those years? In the back of my mind I had a nagging feeling there was more to the story than the NYT reports. Your work offered me the "more" I was seeking, so thank you for that.
It is somewhat ironic that the some of the neighborhood "associations", as well as the Neighboorhood Watch programs we are all so familiar with now, have morphed into something that is, at times, just as appalling as the events of 3/13/64 (in a more subtle way.) Begun with the best of intentions and altruism, some of their modern "kin" that I have witnessed as a resident of New Orleans were more about suspicion and profiling than being a good neighbor.
Nevertheless, what happened to Kitty Genovese should never have happened to her, or anyone else. Should someone have called right away? Probably. Would it have made a difference? Maybe.
While we cannot turn back time, reading your work and other pieces has gotten me thinking about an old concept that deserves another look: social responsibilty towards our fellow human beings, and doing the best one can, based on their perceptions and fears in any given moment of crisis.
Thanks for letting me up on my soapbox for a bit.
Matthew Knapp
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May 19, 2006
I lived on Austin Street near Union Turnpike in the early 1990's. On numerous nights on the anniversary of Kitty Genovese's death, someone in the neighborhood gave out blood-curdling screams at about the time she was murdered. I called the police two years in a row, before I realized what was going on. One night coming from work, at 1:15 am, I heard similar screams from a woman on Austin Street, within sight of the murder scene. A young woman was on the ground and a man with a knife was holding it at her neck. I ran towards them yelling and the man dropped the knife and jumped into a van and drove off towards Leffert's Blvd.. I gave the knife to the police when they came to my apartment. I was happy to leave Kew Gardens.
Tom Fergus
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Abe Rosenthal and the Kitty Genovese Case
May 12, 2006
Editor's Note: The death Wednesday of former New York Times Executive Editor Abe Rosenthal generated some interesting comments about the Kitty Genovese case in the current edition of the New York Observer newspaper.
The following is excerpted from: Charles Kaiser, "A.M. Rosenthal, 1922-2006", The New York Observer, (May 12, 2006):
The story [Rosenthal] promoted about thirty-eight witnesses ignoring the screams of Kitty Genovese when she was murdered was widely disputed by reporters who had actually investigated the scene on the day after the murder. They said that the victim had been pulled out of sight by her attacker, and most of her neighbors thought they were listening to a domestic dispute. Even The Times itself cast doubt on the story in a 3,000 word piece that ran in the City Section in 2004.The following is excerpted from: Philip Weiss, "Something Great About A.M. Rosenthal: Covering the Holocaust", The New York Observer, (Posted May 12, 2006):
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Though other Timesmen reported it, Rosenthal wrote a book on the case, called Thirty-Eight Witnesses. Read that book today and it doesn't feel like journalism. It is rather vague about all the witnesses. There is little hard fact in the case; as the Wikipedia entry shows, the case was mythologized.
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Kitty Genovese Protest
May 11, 2006
To the Editor: Joe, you must have a very morbid mind to have published a picture of Kitty's grave site to this site. This incident is in the past and bringing it up as you have does not change the situation. We all know about the murder and some of us have lived thru it and do not want to have someone keep bringing it up. Please let her lie in peace and leave it alone.
Linda Wiesner
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A Photo of Kitty Genovese's Grave
May 8, 2006
Click on thumbnail to enlarge.
When I first became aware of the Genovese murder about 2 months ago I
started reading everything I could find on the internet related to the
murder. Your site seems to be the only one that sets the record
straight. Most of the others are still using the exaggerated reporting
from 1964, i.e. 38 eye witnesses, 3 separate attacks, etc.It really is a fascinating case. It struck a chord with me. Probably the JFK assassination or the OJ Simpson murders are the only ones that seem to come close in my mind. (I'm only 36.) What's more remarkable to me is that it happened so close to where I live.
I do think it was unfair to blame the people living nearby. I can sympathize with them. I live on the 3rd floor of an apartment building on Austin Street in Forest Hills. There are two bars on the ground floor of my building and one across the street. I hear late night noise almost all the time. It would be very difficult for me to distinguish between cries for help and plain old rowdiness, especially if I was awoken at 3:20 a.m.
It does seem like the people of the neighborhood would rather forget the incident. I suppose it's hard to blame them. On March 13, the anniversary of Kitty's death, I went to the murder site and didn't even see any flowers to mark the anniversary.
The first time I was in that neighborhood was about a year ago when I went to see a movie with my girlfriend at the movie theater on Lefferts Blvd. Having never been to that neighborhood before I remember saying to her, "what a nice, charming neighborhood." It's hard to believe that could be the scene of such an infamous murder.
After reading every story I could find about Kitty Genovese on the internet, I noticed that I never came across a picture of her gravestone. I thought this was strange since it's usually not that hard to find pictures of gravestones of famous people on the internet. Since you provided the name of the cemetery on your site, I decided to make a trip. I have an uncle who I visit every other month who doesn't live far from New Canaan, so I decided to stop by the cemetery on my next visit to see him.
Not knowing where her grave was located, I called the cemetery several times but I always got their answering machine. They must have very limited office hours. Lakeview Cemetery is a fairly large cemetery. I'd estimate there must be about 10,000 graves there. I thought finding her grave would be like finding a needle in a haystack. But I gave myself 30 minutes to see if I could get lucky and find it. That's about all the time I had because it was getting close to dusk. After walking around for about 20 minutes I came across a large headstone rising from the ground which said "Genovese." However, it wasn't Kitty's. But the names on the gravestone, Vincent and Rachel, looked familiar. From what I remembered, it could be her parents' names. So I started looking around and sure enough, Kitty's small gravestone was just a few feet away. There was nothing unique or remarkable about her grave at all. There was also no sign anyone had visited her grave recently. I was there on April 8, 2006.
What struck me as unusual about this cemetery was that 99% of the gravestones were just a name and a date. None of the gravestones I saw had any inscription whatsoever. There was nothing like "forever in our hearts" or "loving father" written on any of them. I was curious to see if there was an inscription written on Kitty's gravestone.
Regards,
Jonathan Bloomfield
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April 7, 2006
I am very interested in this case. It has come to my attention that Kitty was a lesbian. As a social work student, I am interested in the implications of this finding. I have only skimmed your article, but am printing it to take home from school now to read after class. I am just wondering if you have any further information regarding this fact?
Thank you,
Kimberly Gann
Senior Class Representative, IUSSW
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Editor's Note: I have sent Kimberly an email with whatever information I have.
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March 2, 2006
I think I knew by the age of six that if there was an emergency that I should dial "0" to get an operator and to ask the operator for the police. You certainly do make a lot of excuces for those tenants in the Mowbray bldg. At first, I thought you were right, so I walked the 1/2 mile or so from where I live to the site of Ms. Genovese's murder--I only just discovered that I live that close. After seeing the scene of the crime I don't buy your argument. I live on the top (6th) floor of my building which is on a corner of Austin St., and it is very easy to see to the sidewalk across the street at 3:30 AM when the trees are bare. Also. it takes no more than a few moments to come to attention when awakened by shouts for help. After considering the two people involved Ms. Genovese and Mr. Moseley, and that this occured in 1964, you would have had to have been from another planet not to suspect something very wrong was going on out there. All one had to do was to ask the police to please send a car to Austin St. that Friday March 13, 1964. I personally have called the police for things of a less serious nature than what Ms. Genovese was experiencing that night (when in doubt); I can't imagine that her trip from Austin St. to the vestibule in the back of her building was a pleasant one. Maybe it wasn't 38 people or even 28 people but it was a number of people, and those people decided not to do anything. Clearly, they should have done something, and I don't want to make excuces for their actions.
Sincerely,
Kevin Raftery
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More on Denial of Parole for Winston Moseley
February 5, 2006
Editor's Note: The New York Daily News newspaper has more the Parole Board's decision to refuse parole to Winston Moseley, the man who killed Kitty Genovese. Moseley is not eligible for parole again until January of 2008.
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Moseley Denied Parole
February 3, 2006
Editor's Note: Winston Moseley, the man who killed Kitty Genovese, has been denied parole for the twelfth time since 1984.
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December 13, 2005
My thanks for a truly exceptional piece of research.
I read a great deal of your long account, motivated in part by a social psychology study I read in the '70's that was inspired by the Kitty Genovese report, a study that seemed to confirm the notion that the more people who are aware of a problem, the fewer who will feel responsible for acting on it.
Given the high-profile nature of this incident and the shortcomings of the initial New York Times account, have you considered approaching someone in the film industry about doing a piece to provide the public with a better understanding of this tragic event?
Paul du Pre
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The Killer of Kitty Genovese is up for Parole
December 3, 2005
Editor's Note: Winston Moseley, the man who murdered Kitty Genovese, is again up for parole in January of 2006. You can track him by clicking on the following link to the New York State Corrections web site and typing "Winston" and "Moseley" (without the quotation marks) in the appropriate text search boxes.
New York State Dept. of Correctional Services
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November 22, 2005
You read the 1964 article and concluded that it didn't hold up. My reaction was more a thought about the improbability of it. Not much of a difference except to reinforce my wonder at the improbability of a killer returning to finish the job after having been frightened off. The psych studies have reviewed the witnesses thoroughly, but has anyone studied the unlikelihood of Moseley's degree of detachment that would allow him to resume the "hunt" against self-interest. Why would he do that? I have no doubt that he did, but maybe an insanity plea WAS appropriate. Moral bankruptcy doesn't explain the willingness to expose himself when he KNOWS he's been seen. Doesn't he still want to evade detection? If I were one of the 38, this would have been my assumption. I would have figured the ruckus was over, that everybody had gone. The end.
Seven years earlier, Edgar Smith took great pains to cover his tracks and destroy evidence after murdering Victoria Zielinski (crimemagazine.com), though his callous indifference to the pain and suffering of another mirrored that of Winston Moseley. Both seemed to lack a human capacity to feel (and both were clearly the most despicable of cowards). But Smith certainly meant to remain undetected. It was a focal consideration in his actions-after-the-fact. Smith tried to be careful. Moseley behaved dangerously by returning to commit some more stabbing. He heard Karl Ross and his door, and STILL continued his attack. Arrogance? Nothing more? I think not. I think this shows a dissociation from the tangible world. He really isn't of the sane functional world.
OK, so what if I'm right. Who cares? What difference would it make? Well, I think it points out the more important-and ignored-arena of study. What makes these psychopaths/sociopaths tick? Learning this could really have benefits for society, and Kitty & Vickie would not have died in vain (of course Kitty's death has produced benefits already).
Wally
Wally Jeffs
wally6878@yahoo.com
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September 1, 2005
Much has been made of the witnesses' supposedly irrational fears of 'getting involved'.
But consider this passage from Damon Runyon's story "Blood Pressure". The narrator has (unwillingly) spent the night with 'Rusty Charlie', who has been known to shoot a guy dead because he doesn't like his hat. Charlie has just been whacked on the head by his wife, who is angry about him staying out all night...
Naturally I am greatly horrified at this business, and figure Rusty Charlie will kill her at once, and then I will be in a jam for witnessing the murder and will be held in jail several years like all witnesses to anything in this man's town.Now Runyon was writing in the 1920s, whereas the Genovese case was in the early 1960s, but I'd bet there was no change in the law that would dispell the impression that Runyon gave.
Rich Rostrom
"This really is the future I wanted. Although I expected longer battery life." ~ James Lileks
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August 26, 2005
Thank you very much for this article. Your thoughtful analysis and presentation of the facts have helped change what I thought I knew of this tragic case. Ms. Genovese's death remains the greatest tragedy here, but it also now appears to me that some people who should have known better contributed to misunderstandings about those "38 witnesses." That is something of a tragedy itself. We are all, as you suggested, fallible. And it remains a valid question to ask ourselves, if we witness something similar to what these people did that night, would we react better? Another question might be though, did some people use this tragic situation to make a point or points that are not supported by the evidence? If so, they have contributed, wittingly or not, to perpetuating our ignorance of the human condition, and they used Ms. Genovese's story to help them do so. Needless to say, she deserved better than what happened to her that night, but she also did not deserve to have her life used in this way. Thank you again for helping set the record straight. I will tell others about this site, and hope that your efforts will help increase our knowledge and undertanding of this world in an important way.
Matthew Vaporean
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July 5, 2005
Your piece on the Kitty Genovese case is excellent in every aspect save one -- why? Why did Rosenthal push the story in the first place, and why tolerate the exceptionally shoddy journalism? My memory from Rosenthal's book was that he originally went to the police asking about the double confession in the Barbara Kralic case, that Murphy defelected the question with the tale of the 38 witnesses, a tale that Rosenthal immediately picked up and ran with. My feeling is that Murphy had a lot at stake in selling this story, because Alvin Mitchell's confession in the Kralic case had probably been coerced (not unusual in those days) and because of the generally low esteem in which New Yorkers held the police (described in almost apocalyptic terms by Murphy in August of that year). Rosenthal played along because he knew a good story and this one also attracted his sermonizing side. He may have had other motives as well. But he must have known, just like he must have known something was sketchy about Murphy's denial of knowledge of the double confession -- "he looked at me from the corner of his eye, and said he knew nothing about the double confession. Somehow, I feel still that he was being less than utterly frank with me."
I would appreciate any thoughts you have along these lines. Also, do you know if the whole double confession business ever came up at the Fordham thing?
Thanks for your work.
mark rabine
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June 21, 2005
Thank you to everyone involved in producing this information on the Catherine Genovese murder. I teach a graduate course in law and ethics for an Arkansas university. I often use the "Kitty" Genovese murder as an opening example of ethical questions versus legal questions.
I should have known better than to rely on the New York Times to provide an accurrate description of the Genovese murder and surrounding circumstances. Your Website provides the other side of the story, making the tragedy more uderstandable (if less sensational). I will post a link to your material on my course Web site.
Very best wishes to you and your colleagues!
Jeff Pittman
Jeffrey Pittman
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I am a student at McHenry County College and I am doing an oral report on the story of Kitty Genovese. This report is for my Ethics class. I was asked to do a little research on the story before doing the oral presentation. I have to talk about how this story relates to ethics. First, I have to type an article summary, then take key points and views and do the oral presentation. This assignment is due on Wed. April 6th, 2005. I would like as much info. on this story as you can possibly help me with. The book I'm reading this story from is called Vice & Virtue in everyday life by: Christina & Fred Sommers. The Author of the story is: Martin Gansberg. When I first read the story I really had a hard time believing that 38 people just watched her while she faught for her life. Please send any responses along with photos to alb67blue@aol.com
Thank You for your cooperation,
Alice Brosman
alb67blue@aol.com
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Thoughts on OKG's Articles About Kitty Genovese
March 14, 2005
I read this with great interest. As a research psychologist, I'm familiar with media accounts of the case and social psychological explanations for the phenomenon. I both agree and disagree with your interpretation.
I was unaware of how distorted media accounts were: I pictured a crime in which a woman was stabbed in an apartment courtyard while people watched for thirty straight minutes doing nothing while she was stabbed again and again. I have always agreed that apathy was the wrong way to characterize the situation, but that diffusion of responsibility and pluralistic ignorance was what was at issue.
We have *all* experienced things and looked around to gauge peoples' reactions before deciding how to respond. One time I was in an earthquake and found myself looking around to see if anyone else was alarmed before deciding whether or not I was imagining things, which was clearly not rational, since I felt like I was and I was in fact, experiencing an earthquake.
Also, anyone who has ever witnessed a crime and decided to call the police has had the thought, "Someone has probably called already". In fact, I think this happens a lot less because of this particular case, which is a good thing.
However, by your analysis, at least three people didn't call because they didn't want to be involved, one decided not to call because he thought someone else already had, and several other claimed not to know why they didn't act, which to me implies, "I knew something was terribly terribly wrong, yet I didn't call -- WHY didn't I call?" -- not confusion over what the proper course of action was, but confusion about why they did not act in a way that could have helped.
I also disagree with the idea that most of the people who either heard or saw the attack did not know something terrible was happening. A woman is beaten (if you accept the idea that few knew she was actually being stabbed), then gets up and wanders away -- either in a "dream-like state" (I find hard to believe, by the way, knowing what I know about shock) or gripping the wall (which I find more plausible). This alone is a situation that calls for the police to check on the state of the woman -- whether drunk or dazed or hurt -- wandering around alone at 3:00 AM after an attack by a man. Certainly when the man came *back* that should have spelled danger to everyone who witnessed his return -- whether or not she was in the area, they should have known to call the police, because he clearly was trying to find her in order to hurt her. There is simply no other explanation for his return.
I think that a few things contributed to their not calling the police, and that it had very little to do with apathy. People have always been taught not to cry "wolf" and often adjust their threshold for calling the police to a level that is too high. I think a couple of them were just panicked and froze, I think a couple really just did not want to get involved and hoped that the situation wasn't grave as it appeared. I do not, however, believe that the situation did not appear to be serious.
I was in a situation that was a bit similar, and I knew something was very wrong. I heard a woman's scream late at night. I lived in a neigborhood that was filled with college students who tended to be rowdy after a night of drinking, and at first, I thought "hum. Was that a distress scream? It sounded an awful lot like a distress scream. Hm. I wonder. Gosh, I'd feel so stupid if it was just a couple girls who were drunk. I think I'll call. I feel sort of stupid, but who cares? Better to be safe than sorry." Before I could even really complete the thought and get into my apartment to call, a man dressed in all black ran by me. The combination of the scream and the man dressed in black was enough to definitely cross the threshold into "something is NOT right". I called the police and to make a long story short, the woman I had heard screaming had been maced and had fought off her attacker as he tried to sexually assault her.
Anyway, the point is, that with less information than some of those witnesses, I knew something was very wrong. I don't think that it would have taken a monster not to call the police, but I do think that some of those folks did not call, not because of confusion, but because they had not been educated to overcome their natural reluctance to get the police involved when it is warranted. I think that such a situation is at least a little less likely now that people know about the Kitty Genovese case, even though there are significant social psychological factors. But just because I do not think that the onlookers were the apathetic monsters that the NY Times made them out to be doesn't mean that I think their reactions were not terribly, terribly flawed. A woman, assaulted by a man, alone late at night -- that warrants a call to the police even if it is "just" an assault.
Thanks for the interesting analysis.
Anna
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[Editor's Note: Yesterday was the 41st anniversary of Kitty's death.]
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Another Reaction to the Kitty Genovese Story
February 20, 2005
I do feel that you've made some excellent points. I do agree that the New York times made some stretches in their initial article. But wasn't the effect on the city worth the so called toture the residents were put through? As a result, block and neighborhood associations were formed. While you've shown that this case may not have been entirely apathic, apathy was a major problem during that time period elsewhere in the country. People were forced to examine themselves and ask themselves that awful question, "what would i do?" Psychologists finally began to examine prosocail behavior. And today, they are no longer truly blamed. We understand their reasoning now. But what about those who did understand what was happening, like the Koshkins? Why didn't they call the police? You've made excellent arguments why apathy was not present in every witness but it most certainly was present in some witnesses. Though the hours were early, how could these people not hear! the tone in her scream? they may not have understood her words but the tone was most certainly audible from the street. There is a very significant difference between fear and anger and that tone would have been audible from seven storys up. Otherwise, Robert Mozer would not have yelled down. If he understood the tone, why didn't others? ... Your insight to the crime has helped me look at it from all angles.
Molly
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February 14, 2005
I just finished your article, which i googled because I face a similar bystander effect occuring in a social organisation i have loved for years. I found your words both comforting and controversial. I thank you for it, yet disagree with your conclusions. Athough i was a news photographer for over 30 years and am intimately aware of the exaggerating press, Some of the 38 here ( the same # of my group) are definitely blameless, but enough failed to commit any action as to confirm the existence of evil complacency. I believe that moral absolutes exist, my position formed thru over 30 years as a block captain and 25 years as a Town Watch leader here in Philly. Neither position pays anything, and the hours aren't great either, but i know that "all that evil needs to flourish is that good men do nothing" (Did I quote that right?) - you get my drift anyway.
Neither of us can change history, but we can each spin it our own way, I guess. Probably the true path is in the middle somewhere, so that's where I'll try next - maybe I'll see yizz there, and thanks again for your help
neil benson
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Japanese TV Interview
September 28, 2004
Editor's Note: Does anyone out there have any friends in Japan? Yesterday, I was interviewed about the Kitty Genovese case by Japanese Television. The interview took place at the scene of the crime here in Kew Gardens and is supposed to be shown some time in the near future in Japan on a TV show called "Unbelievable" which is broadcast on the Fuji Network every Thursday night from 8 - 9 PM. I asked if the Network would send me a copy of the show, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen. So I'm wondering if there is anyone in Japan who might be able to tape the show when it is broadcast and send it to me. I would reimburse him or her for all expenses.
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July 27, 2004
I am 17 years old. I lived in Kew Gardens for 15 years of my life and I was told about Kitty Genovese and what had happened to her. From what I was told when I was younger about her murder, is different from what I had read in the "true story". I thought she was murdered not by the Tudor Housing but on the 10 story building property. I now understand what actually happened and that not everyone was able to see what went on. Also, one question: Was the L.I.R.R. only for passenger use in 1964?, Also, If trains passed by, wouldn't it be hard to hear some of the screams? The trains that passed by are pretty loud.
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[Editor's Note: In 1964, the Long Island Railroad was primarily a passenger train. I believe it did move some cargo. Nothing I've read on the case to date leads me to believe the Long Island Railroad had any effect on what happened that night. The attacks occurred between 3:20 and 4AM when there would have been few if any trains passing by. Assuming one did, I do not think it would have been loud enough to drown out Kitty's screams, nor would the train have made more than a few seconds of racket. Although Kitty's outcries probably lasted less than a minute, they were most certainly longer than the few seconds it would have taken a train to pass through.]
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Listen to the Fordham Radio Program on Kitty Genovese
April 10, 2004
Editor's Note: Mike Hoffman has posted audio excerpts from the Fordham Radio show about Kitty Genovese which was broadcast on Saturday morning, April 3rd. To listen to them, CLICK HERE
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Quoted in the Queens Tribune
March 11, 2004
Editor's Note: The Queens Tribune, a local newspaper, refers to the research and analysis on this web site in a 40th anniversary article about Kitty Genovese. Here's the quote:
"Another resident, Joseph DeMay, Jr., has set up an extensive website (oldkewgardens.com) devoted to debunking the common account of 38 witnesses who stood idle as Kitty was killed. He offers a lengthy, point-by-point analysis of the newspaper stories and courtroom testimony associated with the case, arguing that the number of witnesses was exaggerated from the start and illustrating how many of the bystanders may never have so much as seen the attack taking place."
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Quoted in the Queens Chronicle
March 11, 2004
Editor's Note: The current issue of a local newspaper called The Queens Chronicle has a story about Kitty Genovese which also mentions Old Kew Gardens [.com]. Here's the quote:
"On his Web site, www.oldkewgardens.com, De May picks apart the original Times article, debunking many of its claims with legal documents from the trial, books and interviews with neighbors.
He argues that the street was not well-lit, the view from the Mowbray was blocked by trees, many of the witnesses were elderly and confused by sleep and the first part of the attack - the only one visible from the apartments - was very brief.
Most importantly, none but possibly two of the 38 people who heard screams had any inkling that they were witnessing a murder. Most thought it was yet another of the drunken lovers’ quarrels that routinely took place outside Bailey’s Bar."
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New York Times Article on Kitty Genovese
February 22, 2004
The following are excerpts from the NY Times article, regarding our wonderful friend and founder of this "Old Kew Gardens, NY" site. He was interviewed regarding his tireless efforts in reference to the Kitty Genovese murder.
It was never the intention of Mr. De May, a 54-year-old maritime lawyer, to spend hundreds of hours analyzing a decades-old murder. Indeed, he had little interest in the subject of Kitty Genovese's death [continued here ... .]
Bonni
ForestHillsHS@aol.com
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February 11, 2004
I want to thank Joe De May for all the research he did on the Kitty Genovese case. I was born in Kew Gardens General Hospital in 1946 and lived in Kew Gardens, on Talbot St., until I went off to graduate school in 1967. When I told my U. of Michigan roommate I was from Kew Gardens, the Kitty Genovese story was her association with the name. Worse than the embarrassment was the horror of the story itself. I'm very glad to read that the facts do not really support the reports we originally read. I also think that in 1964, crimes of that nature were such a rarity, especially in Kew Gardens, that few of the "witnesses" would have imagined what a horrifying attack was taking place outside their windows.
Elizabeth Bacharach
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October 2, 2003
~kitty~
100 screams on a march 13th night
38 neighbors cowering in fright
1964 a year of love and peace
life shouldn't end after a 28 year lease
if only one hand had reached for the phone
kitty an angel would today be coming home
no one can understand why you never called
how can you sleep while your sister is mauled
mowbray house, west virginia, blood on austin street
so many stab wounds from your head to your feet
38 witnesses didn't care about your life
nor did a madman wielding a knife
words can't describe your horrible pain
it matters not that your killer was insane
never forgotten we love you and wish you were here
our sorrow, grief and guilt far too much to bear
you're gone we live with that but not in vain
you're with god now our loss is his/her gain
we pray you're at peace, that's reserved for the best
and for those 38 their quest is for some rest
leonard schneir 6/20/2000
nyclids@aol.com
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July 23, 2003
To Mr. Thoma, I'm sorry you feel the way you do about the people that you say did nothing while Kitty was killed. You obviously have fallen into the trap of believing everything you heard from the police reports and the press releases of the time. What they say happened did not indeed happen the way it was portrayed. If you read further into the documentation of the case on this website, you will learn quite a bit of what really transpired on that night that was not previously known or realized. How do I know? I was there! I was one of the witnesses, one that knows the police were indeed called, and the how and why of the reason things that followed went the way they did. Please do review the entire documentation within to see how and why things went the way they did.
MRH - NYPD Retired
fourtniner@softhome.net
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July 20, 2003
Are you a "Friend" of the lunatic who killed Kitty Genovese?? To even begin to defend this nut and those of the dozens of people who did nothing to help this poor girl out is beyond words. Everyone knows they all watched and nobody called for help. It is a tragic picture of the American public and exactly what is still wrong with society today....nobody ever wants to take a stand and get involved. Regardless of the small details you seem intent on pointing out, she was attacked and killed while screaming for help and somebody should have done something. I hope Kitty's soul haunts those 38 people forever.
D. Thoma
DMThoma72@aol.com
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May 29, 2003
You have done a great service in analyzing the NYTimes article about the Kitty Genovese murder. Not only does it dispell the myth that dozens of people who witnessed a murder did nothing to stop it (and all that that implies, as your reference to the discussion of the case in psychology textbooks points out), but it points out the importance of critical thinking and is itself a good example of it. Thanks. I will bookmark this and pass it on.
Ken Michaud
Link posted on Freerepublic.com
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May 22, 2003
i am a 15 year old student from Australia...My drama class, year 10, is doing a play on the murder of Kitty Genovese... I am now doing an assignment on winston moseley and am looking for further information...
Danielle
roxy_princess_chik@hotmail.com
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October 27, 2002
The Kitty Genovese information was very enlightening, and deserves to be made more generally known.
Mike
czero@worldnet.att.net
[Ed.'s Note: There are two sections on Kitty Genovese. Click here and here to view them.]
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